Lets look at Neil's column in detail to see where he is right, wrong, etc:
"There followed about a hundred lines of dialog between another old friend of mine, "Anton", and this "Mike" individual, of whom I had heard, although I'd never conversed with him, myself."
Now this is hard to understand, since he's published one of my essays and a number of my LTEs to The Libertarian Enterprise. I understand that disavowing people is a tactic of minimizing the importance (and thus the message) of one's opponent in a debate and typical of a passive-agressive personality. His putting my name in quotes, I don't know if that is to "protect my anonymity" or just to imply I am a fictional person or not worthy of being referred to by my proper name. Again, his whole behavior here belies someone engaging in passive-agressive behavior (Gee, where is the ZAP when you need it?)
"Sad to tell, he's a vice chairman of a state Libertarian Party."
True enough. I was drafted to this position, I did not seek it. Now that I am in it I am working as hard as I possibly can to make the LP in my state as powerful and *relevant* to the issues that most enhance or detract from the liberties of the people of my state. National politics has little to do with this work.
Neil continues:"Now it's undoubtedly true, in many instances, what "Mike" asserts about the Zero Aggression Principle being held by some as "universally objective", by which I think he means "rooted in natural law" like the Pythagorean Theorem, or Newton's laws of motion, but it certainly isn't by every libertarian, and possibly not even by a majority. Many libertarians just see it is the only practical way killer apes can get along.
Thus when "Mike" continues, "... then [meaning 'therefore'] you are morally obligated to contribute to liberating those who [have been] initiated against and [are] unable to defend themselves ... " he skates out onto thin ice, breaks through, and falls in. Like so many others who labor to make a point they know damn well is spurious, he doesn't deserve that "therefore", and with a ceremonious drumroll I pretend to be hearing, I hereby take it away from him and break it in half. "
Now hold on a minute there pardner, you're jumping on the context changing bandwagon so typical of a yellow journalist with a chip on his shoulder. Neil specifically left out the part where I state essentially that if you see it as a proper application of the ZAP to defend the rights of ANYONE but yourself at any time, for any reason, in any way, you can't put qualifiers on WHO is worthy of the efforts of others in defense of their liberty.
And, no, I don't believe one has an automatic obligation to others simply for the sake of those others. That wouldn't be appropriate.
Neil goes on:"Knowing his audience, "Mike" tries to dodge it, to make it seem like an act of enlightened self-interest: " ... because as history has shown, initiators will eventually get to initiating against you, always."
No they won't. History doesn't show any such thing. Some will and some won't. Recent studies, for example, demonstrate what we knew all along, that the U.S. was never in any danger of invasion by Japan or Germany, and that we could have sat out World War II in perfect safety. "
Now hold on a minute there, Neil. Since when do we libertarians demand that fictional lines in the sand, known as national boundaries (or oceans for that matter) mean ANYTHING with respect to the ZAP? You sound like some sort of nationalist to me here. Isn't initiation against dirty europeans or chinese people just as offensive to you as against your good white Bunker-American brothers? What about the Jews, for instance? Or are you going to go off on some revisionist rant blaming them for what was done to them?
I don't know what history books you've been reading, bub, but the one's I read have detailed information about, and photographs of, advanced weapons programs by both Germany and Japan intended to attack the US. Multi-stage ballistic missiles, massive flying-wing bombers, and super-submarines capable of cruising off the US coast for many months, not just sinking ships but bombarding coastal cities. Japan not only initiated force against the US (remember Pearl Harbor? Attu? The Phillipines(which were US territory at that time)?), but had planned to invade the western US. Tojo was hot for it, only to be dissuaded by Yamomoto who warned "There is a rifle behind every blade of grass."
History also shows that even before the US entered into the war, Nazi submarines were sinking massive amounts of interstate coastal traffic along the Atlantic seaboard, killing large numbers of Americans, which the Roosevelt administration covered up. I know people who were involved, or who had relatives whe were involved, in the Civil Air and Civil Naval efforts to combat the U-boats. I understand that Neil, living in his western bunker, is likely to never have come in contact with such people, which makes it so much easier to deny this real history.
Neil also seems to ignore the Japanese depredations upon American citizens in Alaska, many civilians who were killed or kidnapped. But of course those Americans were funny looking Aleutian natives, so they must not count as much as Americans in the lower 48.
I find it quite odd that Neil seems to be taking the Chomskyan course of denying real history of war and genocide by tyrants the world over, who are only limited by their ability to obtain and use resources, the willingness of free people or less unfree people, to oppose them, or their own mortality. While American libertarians like him try to paint our own government as the greatest evil to befall mankind, I see the French libertarians doing the same about their own government, while simultaneously approving of US foreign policy in Iraq. How could both groups be libertarian yet disagree on the justice of actions in Iraq?
Neil seems to like the tyrant rationalizing revisionist rant, that American refusal to trade with Japan was 'agression' that deserved violent response. Oh, Please.
Besides Neil, it appears you actually agreed with my principle of doing good for one's own self interest when you said in your May 23rd, 2004 editorial, "Perhaps more importantly, as a civilized people ("Here Smith goes with that 'we' stuff again, Martha!'), we do not protect the rights of helpless individuals—including our prisoners—for their sake, but for our own."
So which Neil am I talking to now? One who repudiates what he said on May 23rd? Or is it the same Neil on May 23rd who pimped for Saddam when he said, "Saddam Hussein was no paragon, to be sure. But he did head the most secular and progressive state in the Middle East." Am I hearing this right? Is L Neil Smith endorsing the fasco-socialist regime of Saddam Hussein just because it was the most 'progressive'? Since when is Neil a Progressive? HE claims to be Libertarian.
Neil goes on to rant:"Following a long series of historical "examples", nearly every one fallacious, "
Only fallacious to revisionists who deny history in order to conform with their prejudices. The examples, btw, were proposed by "Anton" not myself, here is what he said:
"Come now, surely you can think of one or two tyrants who held power until old age, yet never carried it beyond their home state (or its immediate neighbors anyway), let alone all over the world. Franco, Mobutu, Marcos, Somoza, Pahlavi, Suharto, Duvalier .... I'd say they> are the rule, Hitler and Stalin the exception."
In this, Neil misrepresents Anton's words as mine.
Of course Anton left out Mao, Pol Pot, Tojo, Napoleon, Louis XIV, Ghengis Khan, Mohammad, Charlemagne, Edward Longshanks, Julius Caesar (and dozens of other Roman Emperors), the Conquistadores, Tamerlane, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, among many other would-be Ozimandiases of history. He ingores that current day dictatorships like Castro, the Sandinistas, Kim, and Vietnam have a long record of trying to export communist tyranny into many countries. Just because none of these tyrants ever succeeded in conquering the entire world doesn't mean they didn't want to or would not have, it only means that some people stood up to them and put them down, or they died before completely realizing their dreams.
Neil continues his rant:"he goes back to misrepresenting collectivism as a form of individualism: "So in the end, it is really self-defense ... If you refuse to act on your principles, you are a hypocrite and externalizing the costs of your self-defense on others as well as endangering them. Inaction in the presence of tyranny against anyone breeds more tyranny against everyone." "
This isn't collectivism, any more than carrying a concealed weapon is collectivism versus carrying openly. A person carrying concealed creates an umbrella of deterrence, because a criminal cannot determine who might or might not be armed. Those who do not carry at all are free-riding on the voluntary efforts of those who take responsibility for their self defense. Is Neil arguing here that a concealed carrier is a collectivist while an open carrier is not? Does Neil agree that a person who refuses to go about armed is externalizing the costs of their self defense upon others, or not? That is, after all, what an unarmed person is doing. Does Neil argue that if those who refuse to go about armed are billed for their externalization of their costs of self defense on others, that that is collectivism?
A person who refuses to oppose tyranny of any kind (or worse yet, buys into that tyrants propaganda, rationalizations, and historical revisionism as an excuse to refuse to oppose that tyranny, as Neil does below in parrotting Baathist propaganda) is externalizing the costs of their defense against that tyrant just as if they were walking around a ghetto unarmed, expecting to be defended by those who take responsibility for their self defense.
Neil goes off the deep end here:"The inconvenient fact for "Mike" is that blocading somebody else's borders and letting upwards of half a million kids die for lack of medicine and proper nutrition, invading two countries that never did anything to America, and murdering tens of thousands of pregnant women and ten-year-old goatherds can hardly be considered acts of self- defense. "
Baathism is Stalinism. There is no qualitative difference between the two agendas. Stalinism is also the agenda of groups here in the US and throughout the west such as the World Workers Party, and organizations they control like ANSWER, the main anti-war group protesting US action in Iraq. ANSWER is essentially a front for Baathist propaganda, which was then disseminated by WWP into the progressive and libertarian community by morons like Noam Chomsky, alleging that all these alleged deaths in Iraq during the sanctions were due to the sanctions and not to the well documented fact that Saddam was scamming the oil for food program left and right in concert with corrupt high UN officials for his own personal gain. I am rather disgusted that Neil sees fit to reproduce Baathist/Stalinist propaganda here as if it is fact, and yet, am extremely shocked to see that he thinks he can get away with using it to bolster his argument, or that he thinks that libertarians are dumb enough to buy into this Stalinist crap.
This has about done it. Libertarians parrotting stalinist propaganda. Who is the collectivist now, Neil?
More infantile Neilamania:"But the really fun part is when he finally pulls his pants down and shows us what he's got. It isn't very much, sadly enough, but this is what he has been leading up to, all along: "The national LP," "Mike" whimpers, "has put itself so far out to lunch with its idiotic anti-war message that it is simply not being listened to by the GOP anymore ... "
Gasp! Horrors! The country's right-wing socialists are being put off by the truth! "
Whose truth, Neil? There have always been significant numbers of libertarians in the GOP who look to the US LP, the Cato Institute, Reason Magazine, among other libertarian sources, including the vaunted L Neil Smith, for guidance and inspiration. When they see these sources parroting Baathist/Stalinist propaganda, they can't help but shake their heads in astonishment and disbelief that libertarian instincts for anti-authoritarianism of any kind have overwhelmed the movements rational faculties for discerning truth from balderdash. They see that our potent allergies to domestic tyranny have been coopted by the message of the World Workers Party to serve the ends of foreign thugs.
If you, Neil, put any credence at all in Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island", you should understand the complicity of the western left with 3rd world thugs against America.
Neil digs deeper:"He wabbles onward, ' ... where once we had significant influence (the presence of our people writing the tax cuts is a lingering influence) ... '
I don't know who "our people" are supposed to be. Anybody who writes policy under which even one individual has a cent stolen from him is not "our people", simply another enemy who has to be dealt with."
Our people, like Cato, and other sources of libertarian inspiration to small government conservatives and libertarians who happen to be in government, few as they are. One in particular is Grover Norquist, head of Americans for Tax Reform, who wrote Bush's tax cuts and was once quoted as saying, "I'm not totally against government, I just want to shrink it down small enough that I can strangle it in the tub." Is Neil saying that this isn't the sentiment of a libertarian?
Here in NH, our own party chair, John Babiarz, spent two years as a personal advisor to Republican Governor Benson, who cut state property taxes nearly in half during his tenure in office. Of course, this wasn't enough for obnoxious purists like Neil, but this is an example of what gains we can make when we work rationally rather than fanatically.
Neil finally gets to the point of all this:"And here comes the reason I was sent this tantrum: " ... but the LP's loopy treatment of our own government as the bigger threat to liberty, and in some cases (like L. Neil Smith) saying we deserved 9-11 ... "
Wrong again. In the first place, whenever you say something like "our government", speak for yourself. I didn't order it. I don't want it... I've never said that we deserved what happened on September 11, 2001...What I have said is that previous administrations going back more than fifty years are responsible for what happened on that day.."
Now, Neil, lets look at what you actually said in previous columns of yours, which is what I was referring to, particularly your May 23rd, 2004 editorial, when you said, "it was people I called "Europanoids" (to include Americans) who initiated force in the Middle East"
I am also referring to (as you are above) to your May 9th, 2004 editorial when you state clearly that, "Americans and Europeans are the aggressors in this conflict, and what happened in New York on September 11, 2001, was an act of long-delayed retaliation."
So, NO Neil, you clearly are NOT just pointing your finger at the US Government, presidential administrations, or congress. You are placing collective guilt upon Americans and Europeans in general. That is the way I read your statements above, and the way anyone who can read english will read them. This is why I stated in my post to my private email list that you have stated that "we deserved 9-11". There is no other possible interpretation for what you have said above without some very serious, and very Washingtonian backfilling and spinning.
This whole new attack by you on me is rooted in this. If you don't recall saying this, go back and look at your own website. If you disagree with my interpretation, you need to give an honest retraction or correction. No spinning, no backfilling, no hem-hawing.
Now Neil accuses me:"It's what crypto-Republicans like "Mike" call libertarians."
I've been a libertarian for a number of years and voted for anyone of our people on the ballot that I could. I have also voted for libertarians running as Republicans, and I have voted for Republicans in order to keep socialist democrats out of office. That I've never found a Democrat who was worth a damn is more commentary on Democrats than on me. The only reason I registered as a Republican was to have an impact on their party, and because of a long standing fight with the state GOP over allowing the LPNH to be a major party. We've warned them to fix their laws or we'd take over their party.
"The same people fondly parrot the line, "The perfect is the enemy of the good," meaning that those of us who insist on the "perfect"—by standing on principle and avoiding compromise with evil—get in the way of those whose view is "more realistic". But what I've noticed is that if it weren't for those of us who insist on the perfect—embarrassing the gradualists and compromisers by reminding them why we all got into politics in the first place—there'd never be any good. "
Reminding us is fine, Neil. Denouncing us, parroting stalinist propaganda to us, is going too far around the bend, even for you. It must be a slow news day on the Lazy-S ranch to be spending your time picking on little old me.
Neil " [snipping a quote of mine about original legislative writing I'm doing]...Good for "Mike". (I hear they're trying this in Montana, too. I wonder who thought of it first.) "
I had no idea anyone in Montana was trying it. I've been working on this since I heard of the US v Stewart case. That I don't use the word militia in it is important to political salability and totally unimportant to its ultimate utility, so there is no point in purposely using flash-words to rile up the opposition. This is likely a new concept to Neil, of not intentionally pissing off the opposition (he prefers to piss off his allies).
Neil:"It's long past time that individuals like "Mike" were made to understand that the Libertarian Party is not now, and never was an appendage of the Republican Party. "
I never said it was Neil, and that is where you are mispresenting MY words. Trying to work with another party to get good freedom oriented legislation through is called coalitioning, and it is the best way to work when you are a small third party. If I can find Democrats willing to support our legislative agenda as well, I am perfectly willing to work with them. Of course for Neil, being totally inconsequential to government but perfectly right is more important than having any influence at all.
Neal gets insulting now:"So to "Mike's" libertarian constituents, I suggest that it's time to remove him from the office he holds under false colors and find somebody to replace him who believes in the ZAP and really is a libertarian. "
I never asked for the job, I was drafted. I have also never hidden my views on foreign policy from anybody in the state party or nationally. I have supported libertarian candidates of all sides of the issues of foreign policy. I also don't think a Free West Bunkertarian like you has any right to tell a party in another state who can and can't be one of their leaders, and I don't think an absolutist fanatic like you has any right to be going around imposing litmus tests on who is and who isn't a libertarian, like some latter day Judge Jeffries in his Star Chamber. Of course you are just the sort of abrasive nut who would cut off his nose to spite his face.
If you, Neil, have the nads to make an issue of it, you need to come here to NH, join the LPNH, become a NH resident, and recruit support for your own candidacy to replace me. You are welcome to the job if you are honest enough to come here, get down to business, and vote me out (if people here will have you). Until then you are just one more pussilanimous purist prick sitting on his armchair strutting verbal barrages on the internet, and not moving the movement forward.
So far all I have seen is passive-agressive initiation of verbal violence against me by Neil, misrepresentation, lies, and baseless accusations against me by you. You are going to need bigger ammo than that. The one thing I said about you specifically is, as I showed by quoting you from your own website, exactly true.
There is plenty of room in the LP for people who disagree on foriegn policy issues, because the Nolan Chart really doesn't address foreign policy, it only addresses domestic economic and social issues. We are going to have to have a whole new z axis of foreign policy if we are going to be fragmenting the party with the L Neil Smith Litmus Test of Bunkertarian Purity.
I have to go now, I have some real libertarian politics to work on...